diff --git a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Composite.java b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Composite.java
index c70707366f..23e74f61c6 100644
--- a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Composite.java	
+++ b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Composite.java	
@@ -1396,7 +1396,20 @@ void moveAbove (long child, long sibling) {
 	long parentHandle = parentingHandle ();
 	if (GTK.GTK4) {
 		if (sibling == 0) {
-			GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_after(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			/*
+			 * True raise-to-top-of-paint-order, scoped to Shell-direct
+			 * children (e.g. an overlay pane raised via moveAbove(null)).
+			 * GTK4 has no per-widget GdkWindow, so this same native sibling
+			 * list also backs Composite._getChildren(); other code already
+			 * relies on today's insert_after(..., NULL) behaviour to keep
+			 * getChildren() stable for non-Shell parents, so this is not
+			 * changed generally.
+			 */
+			if (this instanceof Shell) {
+				GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_before(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			} else {
+				GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_after(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			}
 		} else {
 			GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_before(child, parentHandle, sibling);
 		}
@@ -1416,16 +1429,20 @@ void moveBelow (long child, long sibling) {
      * scrolled content instead.
      *
      * Not needed on GTK4: widgets have no per-widget GdkWindow, so paint order
-     * is simply the parent's child-list order (first = bottom, last = top), and
-     * the general branch below already appends the child to the end (top).
+     * is simply the parent's child-list order (first = bottom, last = top).
      */
 	if (!GTK.GTK4 && sibling == 0 && parentHandle == fixedHandle) {
 		moveAbove (child, scrolledHandle != 0  ? scrolledHandle : handle);
 		return;
 	}
 	if (GTK.GTK4) {
+		/* Mirror image of moveAbove - see the comment there. */
 		if (sibling == 0) {
-			GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_before(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			if (this instanceof Shell) {
+				GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_after(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			} else {
+				GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_before(child, parentHandle, 0L);
+			}
 		} else {
 			GTK4.gtk_widget_insert_after(child, parentHandle, sibling);
 		}
diff --git a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Control.java b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Control.java
index 9dc6083203..6671563a3c 100644
--- a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Control.java	
+++ b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/Control.java	
@@ -815,7 +815,13 @@ void createWidget(int index) {
 	checkBuffered();
 	showWidget();
 	setInitialBounds();
-	setZOrder(null, false, false);
+	if (GTK.GTK4 && !(this instanceof Shell)) {
+		/* moveBelow(null) now sinks Shell-direct children to the back
+		 * (see Composite.moveAbove) - guard against undoing that. */
+		setZOrder(null, false, false, !(parent instanceof Shell));
+	} else {
+		setZOrder(null, false, false);
+	}
 	if (!GTK.GTK4) setRelations();
 	checkMirrored();
 	checkBorder();
@@ -4833,10 +4839,10 @@ void destroyWidget() {
 			// GTK windows don't have a parent, so destroy it now
 			GTK4.gtk_window_destroy(currHandle);
 		} else if (parent != null) {
-			if (fixedHandle != 0) {
-				// Remove widget from hierarchy by removing it from parent container
-				OS.swt_fixed_remove(parent.parentingHandle(), fixedHandle);
-			}
+			/* Use currHandle, not fixedHandle alone - widgets without a
+			 * separate fixedHandle wrapper were otherwise never actually
+			 * unparented here, leaving them alive and rendered natively. */
+			OS.swt_fixed_remove(parent.parentingHandle(), currHandle);
 		} else {
 			assert false : "widgets must have a parent or be a GtkWindow";
 		}
@@ -5925,7 +5931,12 @@ public boolean setParent (Composite parent) {
 	allocation.height = height;
 	gtk_widget_size_allocate(topHandle, allocation, -1);
 	this.parent = parent;
-	setZOrder (null, false, true);
+	if (GTK.GTK4 && !(this instanceof Shell)) {
+		/* See createWidget() re: guarding fixChildren on GTK4. */
+		setZOrder (null, false, true, !(parent instanceof Shell));
+	} else {
+		setZOrder (null, false, true);
+	}
 	reskin (SWT.ALL);
 	// restore focus to the last Control that had it, if focus is now gone
 	if (focusControlBeforeReparent != null && !focusControlBeforeReparent.isDisposed() && display.getFocusControl() == null) {
diff --git a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/ToolBar.java b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/ToolBar.java
index 4a9782a213..fb63abb090 100644
--- a/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/ToolBar.java	
+++ b/bundles/org.eclipse.swt/Eclipse SWT/gtk/org/eclipse/swt/widgets/ToolBar.java	
@@ -309,8 +309,10 @@ public int getItemCount () {
 
 	int itemCount = 0;
 	if (GTK.GTK4) {
+		/* Must match _getItems(): a Menu's GtkPopover is also parented here
+		 * as a native child and would otherwise count as a phantom item. */
 		for (long child = GTK4.gtk_widget_get_first_child(handle); child != 0; child = GTK4.gtk_widget_get_next_sibling(child)) {
-			itemCount++;
+			if (display.getWidget(child) instanceof ToolItem) itemCount++;
 		}
 	} else {
 		long list = GTK3.gtk_container_get_children (handle);
@@ -348,8 +350,9 @@ ToolItem[] _getItems () {
 		ArrayList<ToolItem> childrenList = new ArrayList<>();
 		for (long child = GTK4.gtk_widget_get_first_child(handle); child != 0; child = GTK4.gtk_widget_get_next_sibling(child)) {
 			Widget childWidget = display.getWidget(child);
-			if (childWidget != null) {
-				childrenList.add((ToolItem)childWidget);
+			/* A Menu's GtkPopover is also a native child here; skip non-ToolItems. */
+			if (childWidget instanceof ToolItem toolItem) {
+				childrenList.add(toolItem);
 			}
 		}